sig rattler vs springfield saintunion county oregon murders

Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. New Springfield Saint. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. The new 9mm suppressor can mount easily to any pistol barrel threaded x28 inches and doesn't compromise on sound suppression, gas blowback or recoil. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. Thats as short as ARs get. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. The Premier Body Armor Vertx Collaboration Adds More Options, VIDEO: Police Snipers Train for Super Bowl LIV With .50 BMG, More, The MAUSER 98 125th Anniversary Limited-Edition Series, FIRST LOOK: Glock Just Very Quietly Unveiled the New Glock 47 Pistol, Police Sidearms: The Handguns of Americas 10 Largest Departments, Black Creek Labs MRX Bronco, TRX Bronco Hunter Rifles, CMP Surplus Ammo Coming Soon in M2 Ball, .30 Carbine & More, Active School Shooter Training: 14 Key Points to Consider, 5 Strategies For Effectively Completing a Tactical Reload, FIRST LOOK: Colt CBX Precision Chassis Rifle Ready to Compete & Win, 5 Common Myths on How to Survive a Gunfight, Understanding Stand Your Ground Laws and Castle Doctrine, Long-Distance Shooting: 5 Must-Know Tips For Spotters & Shooters, IMPACT Experience Events Redefine Your Long-Range Shooting Limits, Sniper Skills: Taking Your Shooting Precision to the Next Level. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . For more information, please see our During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. Life has a melody. Runs great. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. Give a Gift Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. They are dead to me. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. Honey badger .300bo 5. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. I got the email also Bio. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. 300 AAC Blackout. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. Probably, but not at 900 fps. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. SIG Sauer MCX-SPEAR: Civilian Version of XM7 Rifle Arrives! Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Its solid visual form led us to refer to it as a forend rather than a handguard. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). Much of their stuff is imported and rebranded. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. MCX-SPEAR . For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. Target right showed five A-zone shots. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Apr 24, 2017 Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. Keep Reading. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. What is it? Pistol: Semi-Auto. Compare. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. He called it a stutter. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. Filter SIG MCX . The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Minuteman. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . SIG MCX Rattler SBR . As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. models. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. No problems except for the gas blowback. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. Sig's new SnakeBite . Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Just Got this in my e-mail . Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. So after that day it was on my dream list . This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Thanks Bio. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Supporter+. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. This is a 100-yard rifle. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. check out the. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. New! Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Operation was very smooth and secure. The bottom line? This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. I cant understand that. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. Thanks for opening my eyes. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design .

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